In this episode we talk with Kieran Moolchan. Kieran is a Winnipeg based mental health advocate. Kieran shares his mental health journey, his advocacy for system changes and the role that service clubs can play.
In this episode we talk with Kieran Moolchan. Kieran is a Winnipeg based mental health advocate. Kieran shares his mental health journey, his advocacy for system changes and the role that service clubs can play.
Welcome to this episode of Talking Rotary. I'm Peter Tonge, and I'm a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg Charleswood.
Mandy Kwasnica:And I am Mandy Kwasnica, past president and also a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg. Charleswood. We are so happy you have joined us here and I are so excited for the new podcast and thankful to our many listeners. Let's start talking Rotary.
Peter Tonge:Hi, everyone, this is Peter Tonge. Welcome to another episode of Talking Rotary. I'm here with Kieran Moolchan. And we're both in Winnipeg, Canada. How are you?
Kieran Moolchan:Hey, Peter. I'm doing really good.
Peter Tonge:Good. I'm glad to hear it for folks all over the world. Can you explain where Winnipeg is?
Kieran Moolchan:Sure. Yeah. Winnipeg is in central Canada in Manitoba. We just sit on top of the that line between Minnesota and North Dakota if you're in the US, but yeah, smack dab in the middle of Canada.
Peter Tonge:Good. Thank you that just helps are folks know where we're at? Now, I know you're not a Rotarian. But you have a family history of Rotary, can you tell us a little bit about that?
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah, I do. My mom and dad are both or both were involved with Rotary. My mom's still, you know, for many years, they were and have been part of the South Korean district, Rotary Club, and Soccerex, a town that's just about 30 minute drive north of Winnipeg, here in central Canada. So, yeah, they're both teachers, and they got involved with Rotary, like fairly early in their lives, and Selkirk. been part of that community for probably north of 30 years.
Peter Tonge:Wow, great. So you're gonna know we if we fall into Rotary terminology, or something, at least you're gonna do it that
Kieran Moolchan:I should, you know, or at least have at least heard it around the dinner table.
Peter Tonge:There yo go., I understand completely. Now get one of the reasons that you and I connect is, is one of the focuses for me this year is mental health. And I know you've done a lot of speaking on mental health and your own mental health journey. So can you share some of that with us?
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah, I'd be, I'd be happy to share that. So. Yeah, over the past several years, about 10 years now, I've been talking about some of my experiences with my mental health journey, and helping advocate for better mental health services within our city and our province, here in Winnipeg, Manitoba. And just trying to share my experiences with people to either help raise money for different services, or just raise awareness of some of the different ways that we can help people in our community who are struggling with different mental health issues and illnesses. It's been something that's very close to my heart, and not just because I went through certain mental health experiences, but also because like many of us, I either know people have friends or family who have gone through different very unfortunate and kind of severe experiences due to their mental health illnesses, and I've wanted to help advocate for those things.
Peter Tonge:Okay, so, um, to sort of bring me into the fold. What are the types of things that you're advocating for what's missing or what what needs focus?
Kieran Moolchan:I, I think that based on my experience, and I'm not I will throw it out there. I advocate for these things based on my own experience. I'm not necessarily an expert. I'm not a doctor. I'm just somebody who has been diagnosed with bipolar type two disorder. So you know, you can definitely take some of the things that I advocate for with a grain of salt but I feel In that many of the issues that people face in getting timely treatment and deeper and longer term support in our, in our healthcare system as a whole, are things that we can really improve on. And I think within our own province in Manitoba, there is a lack of holistic treatment options for people to get mental health services, not just if they're in crisis, but to support them in their life as a whole. Some of that has to do with things like poverty and reduction and addictions, treatments and housing. And some of that is frontline services. And I think that one of the things that I've run arrived that in some of the things that I advocate for are more holistic visions for supporting mental health care, more coordination from community groups and governments, and then just overall, more, a larger comfort in talking about issues very honestly, so that we can arrive at solutions for them.
Peter Tonge:I think that's a very good point. As don't and please don't discount your knowledge, because as a person who lives with a physical disability, I mean, the people that I, I trust and turn to most often are the folks with the lived experience, right? Doctors have a textbook understanding or a textbook and experience. And I'm sure you're aware of lived experience can be far different from that. So yeah. My world lived experiences where?
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah, I do. I do agree with that. I think that there's a combination of that, you know, expertise and experience that you we can all learn from, to speak on my own experience. You know, when I was in university, which now is yeah, 10, more than 10 years ago, I'm 34. Now, okay. And when I was in university, I had a period of time where I, you know, my grades would slip, and then they would be great, I would have a good semester and a really rough semester. And I would feel my mood slip between those two things. And I didn't really have a good reason for why that was happening. And I wasn't equipped to explore why that was going on. And then around 2013 Well, in 2011, my dad passed away. And and then I think, combined with some of the underlying mood disorder that I had, and and just the early 20s, and late the late teens and early 20s, being a fairly tumultuous time in many people's lives. My symptoms got very bad. So I was experiencing deep depressions. And I went to, you know, I was having trouble with school, I was having trouble getting out of bed, I was having a lot of that. A lot of sadness, just generally in my life. And it was it was really affecting me. So I went to my doctor here in we're in Winnipeg, and it was a new doctor, because I'm from outside of the city. So I moved in. And, you know, he basically looked at it and like you were saying, said, this is textbook depression that you have. That's what I think it is. Let me prescribe you some antidepressants. And this was in the summer of 2013, or the spring, like late spring, early summer.
Peter Tonge:Okay, so almost exactly 10 years ago. Yeah.
Kieran Moolchan:And the unfortunate thing about being prescribed antidepressants, if you don't have depression, but maybe have a different type of mood disorder, like bipolar or bipolar type two, is, while it somewhat handles the lows that you get in mood and energy, when you have Bipolar you it makes the highs a lot more intense and sometimes combines the two. So what happened was I was taking these antidepressants and I went from just being having a very depressed time to going into what they call a mixed state and I was both still depressed, but experiencing racing thoughts and energy levels and trouble sleeping that I wasn't having before. or which combined into many days with minimal sleep to no sleep and turn into hallucinations and a true manic state, which for me, later on, I found out is not a regular symptom of bipolar type two, it's the differentiate between bipolar one and two is how high the high is. And if you reach true mania, which is, you know, kind of a dissociative euphoric state full of lots of energy, and usually many risks taken either financially, sexually, or you pick your adventure, and turn it to 11.
Peter Tonge:Yeah,
Kieran Moolchan:yeah. So I found myself in a in a state where I had this combined and mixed state, and I made a very firm plan to head to a bridge in the city that we live in in Winnipeg, and I was my plan was to jump off of it. I ended up not choosing to do that while I was on the bridge. And weirdly, because morning, Rush Hour was starting, and it felt like I would be inconveniencing many people, which was the problem. That's the kind of thought for us as you go. But it wasn't, it wasn't the only event, there were a couple of others that were that followed that. And so that had me go through an experience with our kind of the whole gamut of crisis care. This a subsequent time that I was out on a very late night wander, which also had me feeling like I was going to harm myself, I ended up calling a friend, the only option was to get picked up by the police, they are the first ones to show up. And I took a ride to the crisis care unit at the Health Sciences Center here in Winnipeg. And I kind of experienced what frontline crisis care is where they take really good care of you for one night. And then they send you home and you have to kind of sort out the rest of it on your own with your doctor kind of. And that was kind of like my first experience with just how disconnected some frontline support is with the ongoing care and the long term plan that you have to create to start getting quality treatment. Because, you know, unlike school, if you were to, you know, if you get cancer, or you have a long term program of testing, and possibly chemotherapy and surgery and follow ups and all of these options, if you break a limb, you still go back for physiotherapy and you have options that happen as part of a plan after you get hurt. And with mental health care in Manitoba, it didn't feel the same. Yes, I was referred to a psychiatrist. But there's still a such an onus on me as an individual who's still going through, it's something that I don't really understand to coordinate with different departments make sure my health records are getting passed around, possibly paying for things that I thought would be covered with our health care, but maybe aren't like your separate therapy or counseling. And so I went through this longer term process over the course of almost two years before, I had a kind of full stability and a plan and a cohesive health care system support plan. And, and that really made me feel like, you know, there's a lot missing here in the province. At the time I was going to communications program. And so I blogged about it the entire time that I was going through it, I felt like it was the best way to communicate to my friends and family. I could do one edit, it was somewhat selfish, I could write one post. And I could tell many people what was going on, right. And that felt more comfortable to me than telling individuals one at a time and having to have a difficult conversation one conversation at a time. But because of that, that's kind of what got me into this place where I'm at now where I'm very comfortable talking about these things. Many other people go through an experience that could be even more traumatic or worse than me. I'm not saying anything that I went through is not that, but I'm comfortable talking about it. And I think that for many other people, it's a very private thing. And they often don't get the support from either their family or of their friends, or the system that allows them to create stability within their lives and works through a proven plan, or at least a supported plan by experts or their doctors, with the help of their friends and family. So I was very lucky with what I went through. So I hope that I can use some of maybe the luck that I had to advocate for others.
Peter Tonge:Cool. Well, there's, there's so much there to unpack that I want to touch on a little bit. The first isn't any raise it is, it's the whole stigma around mental health. And so many people want to keep it private, or aren't comfortable talking about it. Or because it's mental health, you're not getting the support, as you said, you had cancer, it's a whole different story, their support system kind of kicks in, and family and friends and everything else. So there's, there's that little hurdle to begin with. What do you what do you think helped you over that hurdle? Because that's a that's a big one.
Kieran Moolchan:I think, even though I was so even though I was comfortable communicating publicly, what was going on with me, it was still very difficult to, like I say, have those individual conversations with people. And I feel like over the last 10 years, there has been a shift. I've noticed, you know, people that were, that are my age now are more comfortable talking with their friends about how they're feeling, they're more open about their mental health. But I think that systematically, we're still not quite there, there's a and I think part of that comes from normalization, and also just a lack of expertise and experts being put really close to the people who have things going on, there's still that disconnect, between what your doctor can offer potentially, and what you need to go see a specialist for. There isn't a, you know, like I said, like, I have not had cancer, but I have family who have, but I feel like I'm more familiar with the steps that you go through to get treatment for something like that, then then most people that I know, I know the steps to get treatment, or at least start down a path for treatment for something that's going on with them, they have mental health issues. So I think that, you know, there's still work that we can do as like societal, the to accept people not necessarily knowing what they have, but knowing that something is not right. And then also, you know, as a system, give them create more education around what the steps are? And I think it is, it is it can be a very private thing. And I'm not saying that everyone needs to blog about their, their issue. You know, I think that the thing that we do need to do a better job of we within the healthcare system, and then also, you know, in communities is create that awareness of what options do you have? And then What steps will you be supported along, even if you choose to do it privately.
Peter Tonge:It's very, very interesting to me, that it seems like an extra burden, because you're trying to navigate a quote unquote, secret system, when you only really understand what's happening yourself.
Kieran Moolchan:That's, that's a very scary thing, because I think you can be experiencing certain symptoms, and you don't necessarily know what's causing them, you just know that you feel bad. And on top of that, because of how you feel you are less likely to either have the energy or wherewithal to go out and seek those things. So there's an extra almost extra step of others reaching out for you either through a system or through your support system, like your family or friends. There's an almost an extra step that has to happen for people to feel comfortable to ask for help. And I know that there's always conversations about like, you know, you can tell me anything, you can walk me through that, but I think that there's some other level of whether it's teachers or co workers or or companies, you know, if you work at a company, making it acceptable for there to be no consequence to be asked about your mood without you know, and that's true to you, I know that now that I'm in a very much more corporate world, there are many people that would not speak about their, you know what, what their health issue is, because that could have a negative impact on their job. And I think that still speaks to that stigma that exists. You know, like, if you have, you know, if you have a severe physical illness of some other type, you know, you're more likely to be able to get paid time off to get treated for your supportive coworkers. So there's that level of stigma may be going away for younger people in their own communities. But once you hit the workforce, it still exists.
Peter Tonge:Absolutely.
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Peter Tonge:I want to get into that in a minute. But while it's in my head, I want to I want to ask you looking back at your, at your blog, 10 years later, what what it what did what did you learn what was what was? What was the most important thing that came out of that?
Kieran Moolchan:Looking back on the blog, I think I'd originally, I had originally written that thing as a selfish action, almost. I had done it in the context at the time of the bell, Let's Talk Day. Because that felt like an okay, time. 2020 13 context is or 2014 context is a lot different for that event. But I think that the thing I learned from it was, how many people found comfort in someone having that conversation publicly. I got a lot of private messages about that. That from people, not just people that I knew, but from strangers. And who were asking me for instructions. Like, yeah, like and not and not in that they wanted me to solve. Like, they're, you know, they weren't asking me to solve their problem, but they were just asking me for instructions for how do I navigate are my own healthcare system? Like, just just give me some bullet points? Of what order I need to do this? And I don't know, where the first I know, the first thing I'm supposed to do, but like, what am I supposed to do next month when you might my I don't know, when I'm still waiting six months for a psychiatrist appointment? How do I how do I do things for the next six months. So I think the thing that I learned was that, like, not only are there people of all walks of life that are having these kinds of issues, that there's such, there's such a lack of instructions for how to approach those things. And I think that's a systematic failing, that's not necessarily just stigma or, or anything else. There's like a real disconnect between the organizations and health care, like governmental provided health care that we have to give someone a cohesive plan to have a good life while still having a, you know, while still working through whatever their mental, mental health issue is, because it's something that you have for a long time. You need to get tools and and support and a program for yourself to not have it be the only thing you have to work through. Cuz you want to do stuff with your life.
Peter Tonge:Okay, so let's dig into that a little bit. I know you've been doing a lot of advocacy in this area. So how do we build that more holistic approach so that it isn't such a maze that you're trying to navigate through over in your case? yours?
Kieran Moolchan:Well, I think there's a couple of immediate things. One of the, one of the reasons why I think in you, one of the reasons why you'd invited me on here is because I was speaking with and for like the Victoria Hospital Foundation fundraiser that was happening recently, in Victoria hospitals, a hospital here in Winnipeg. At the time of my crisis, I literally walked right past that hospital. I knew it was there, I'd been there before for physical injuries. Yes. And, and for and I lived really close to it. At the time when I was in universities, I walked right past it. And one of the only reasons I walked right past it was because I knew that if I had some issue, I would probably sit in the regular emergency room with, you know, people who had car accidents, which are clearly things that need to be treated right away, and other ailments that were very obvious. And I would probably spend hours in there, and I would just be taking up space. And it didn't feel like a place where I should go with the thing that I had to deal with. Fast forward to now that hospital has a mental health assessment unit that feels like if you were walking past it, or if you lived in the community, you could show up there and have a similar process of how you would triage and then assess and get treated in an emergency room. But in a context that feels a lot better. If you have not been in a severe physical, something happened to you physically. It's a place that's designed for that kind of thing. And it's not just designed for that one, that first night was remember the other time that I went, I spent one night in a crisis care unit. And then they said, call your HELOC. Here's the number you call that hopefully you get an appointment in a couple of weeks or months. And I hope that you have a good next day,
Peter Tonge:The physical equivalent of stopping the immediate bleeding and sending you at the door.
Kieran Moolchan:Exactly like they slept a band aid on it for one night. And that's not how that would work, you would have many other steps to go through. And so like this unit at the Victoria Hospital, make sure that there's follow up, it might not be immediate, because our system is not, you know, it isn't perfect yet. But it does have is both a place and something with steps and a system attached to it to make sure that you have follow ups. And there's there's certain other activities that happen after your initial crisis. And you can go there if you are not in crisis as well. And it doesn't feel like a place that's only for people in crisis, which I think is an important distinction. That's one of the first
Peter Tonge:Sorry, I interrupted. But I think that's an important point, because I hadn't thought of it in that context, right? It's as you say, it's a it's a place of resources, and you don't have to be an immediate grazes to go there. That's, that's really interesting.
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah. And it's, it's built into your local hospital. And I think that it's one of the first of its kind within Manitoba, and I believe CR across Canada, and it fits in a space that is sorely lacking or has been had, it's had to have been had a gap filled by a community organizations, which, by their very nature, don't allow for the same access to say your health records or, or are able to set up follow ups with people who, like psychiatrists who can prescribe medication and those kinds of things. So community groups have been doing an amazing job in that, that space that's been empty, but there's been a lack of coordination with, you know, the governmental health care that you get. So I think that like to go back to your question like that, that place that thing that we can start doing a lot better is designing a system that allows you to go from start to better or managing or ongoing with without gaps in it, and to create, yeah, a very cohesive way of supporting those people. And that's the first step like, let's look at that system. Right. And that's something that's very much government focus, like how, you know, you have community groups who have been filling those gaps that the government asked and ultimately, at least here in Canada and Manitoba, because we have such a public funded and run health care system, that's like the main thing that we need to do here. But there's also like, well, what can community groups do. And I think there's a huge space for improvement in that holistic sense for what happens before someone could be in a place where they are in crisis, addressing some of the factors that create instability in someone's life that make a mental health crisis feel so much more intense or worse. And then, to follow on that, that same style of support for people who have gone through, or are going through things within the healthcare system, to also be supported. And I think that's something that community groups are, you know, the government, again, I advocate for, you know, support there, but I think community groups can lead the way and create a lot of the either awareness or advocacy or the framework that the government can then pump funding into, or create programs to make something very holistic.
Peter Tonge:Absolutely. The other. The other piece that I'm thinking about, as we talked about, as you say, there's, there's sort of this pre crisis, and then that that period of time to come to, I don't know, good stability, or coping or whatever, whatever that sort of more level plays is, what role does government community have in that, then? You know, 90 years going forward after that?
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah. Well, I think there's two parts to it. And I'm not, I'm not good when it comes to quoting, you know, numbers and statistics. So bear with me when I talk about things like studies and, and, and things like that. But I think one of the things that I've learned over the past few years and speaking with other community groups, and either harm reduction specialists or anti poverty groups, is that there's such a strong correlation between stability within your life and a propensity for having a severe something some sort of severe mental health crisis. Now everyone can go through and experience mental illness, any anyone could be, you know, affected by different types of you know, depression, bipolar, those are things that are part of our genetic makeup. And just like any other type of chronic illness could just come crop up within your life. But what happens to you while that's happening, and the factors that make kind of dial those things up, even to be even more life affecting, on top of them already being severe, are factors like stability of housing, you know, social supports, being a, you know, having both social supports, both through family and friends, but also, you know, community support, whether or not you already have a drug addiction, or have been able to receive a treatment program, all of those things, support people in a way that if mental health crisis happens, or if they find themselves diagnosed with a mental illness, mean that they can address the illness and the things that are happening to them without having to worry about or getting that stuff compounded by what's going on in their life. And that's before they are diagnosed, or at any point in your life, whether or not you're, you know, you're 20, or you're 50, or anything. Just, you know, a lot of the times we talk about young people who are affected by mental illness, but we don't necessarily think about what happens if you're, you know, if you're at or you're 70, like you, you've been living alone for too long, you don't have the same kinds of supports that you have. So again, if something happens to you, and you've seen, and you can see this for other physical ailments if someone falls or anything like that their quality of life deteriorates and their mental health deteriorates. And it can bring up the kind of same types of crises at any point in your life, if there's some sort of de stabilizer to you living a good life. And so I think one of the biggest things that community groups can advocate for and help support people in and then hopefully governments will create systems to help is addressing things like food stability, like your Do you have enough to eat. Are you eating well, like a big part of why I feel that I was successful with my going post my crisis? Was that, like, I did have an FTE, I had parents who would help me, I was not in a position to both work and go to school because I would have been, there wouldn't have been no time and way for me to get treatment and help myself. So I had my parents were helping support me, I was lucky to have two parents that could help support me, or well, at the time one is one that passed away but and that we had the means to do that. Many people do not have the means. And so if you're trying to worry about do I have enough money to buy a week's worth of food? Or am I going to be am I is my bank account already at zero? Am I borrowing money? Is my worried about where I'm going to live? How are you supposed to deal with the illness that you are also experiencing? When you're trying to survive like that? So I think that for a lot of people, that just makes it just exacerbates their illness. Because how do you address your illness when you are trying to survive, otherwise, you have to you literally to x seeing your have to survive metric, like it doesn't make sense to me. I'm sorry, about your housing and, and poverty reduction, because I think that you i that allows people to have a safe space, literally a room or a home with where they can live so that they can address those kinds of things. There's a big conversation, at least here in our city about, about that about homelessness and people not having places to live. And, you know, we've looked at other countries that provide housing for, for people, they just give people a house, let's give you some live a house and apartment, then you can start looking for a job, or getting health care support or treating your addiction because you have a roof a safe space, and you can feel like you can get a good night's sleep, you don't have to worry about where your next meal comes from, then you can start working on the other things, that hierarchy of needs pyramid, and shelter and food and then let's deal with the problems. Right. So that's a big, that's a big place where I feel like we can do a lot better.
Peter Tonge:I agree. And that's not even getting into the discussion where, you know, in certain cases, there is programming where you might go to get housing, but you have to clean first, right? And those kinds of obstacles to Well,
Kieran Moolchan:yeah, every obstacle there, just like I was speaking earlier about the obstacles of knowing what to do next, in terms of healthcare treatment, you know, just not knowing if it's two weeks or two months to see a psychiatrist, like, that would feel like small potatoes, if you are like, well, also, I'm worried about in two weeks, I will be evicted. Or or I or I have no place to be evicted from and I'm looking at what is tomorrow's food. And so I think that is a huge place where almost unfortunately, like community organizations can make a big impact right now at least within our community, because I think there's still work to be done for things like social housing and, and being able to provide those things. But I think that that's a prime place for advocacy and effort that can make a really meaningful impact in people's lives and have the spillover of addressing mental health. You know, I think there's always been a big to get a little broad, and it feels like we're talking about a lot of different problems at all at one time, you know, with the mental health but on a small community scale. If we look at one city, or you know, within our community within your community one of the big biggest impacts I think that we can make for people's mental health not just individuals without that those houses without housing or without food, but also to the people who maybe often can complain about, oh, like my my town, my neighborhood, what's happening to it kind of kind of, you know, or people struggling and looking inward like is to how do you alleviate all of these concerns? Like I don't know let's build someone a house. That's a big thing for me, but I think that there's so many angles to attack back the issue of mental health care support and to help improve things for people. Yeah, we can pick we can pick many of them, or any group can pick one and really work hard to do it.
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Peter Tonge:Yeah, exactly. And I think you've already answered my next question, but let's articulate it. So what service organizations like Rotary International do in that context?
Kieran Moolchan:Well, so from knowing from knowing what I know about Rotary International, and from what my mom is involved in, I think, on a small scale, one of the things that I, I have a lot of pride about when I talk about what my mom works on is, you know, Rotary helps with lunches for people in schools. So for kids who are families maybe don't have the means to provide those lunches. And I think there's been a really strong correlation between getting good nutrition and having good development in children. And part of development in children is mental health development, your actual the development of your brain need, your brain needs, energy, to learn and to absorb information. And a spill over from that is one of the most tumultuous times in a human's life on a chemical level is that late, that mid to late teens time as and as your brain is still developing into your early 20s. And if if there are mental health issues that are going to rear their head at that time, because they've been passed through your genes, and they're going to get revealed when you have the most chemical imbalance in your body. So I think you're on a small scale, you know, being able to know that you're going to get lunch is really helpful. I think that on a larger scale, I think that, you know, certain organizations like rotary are in a prime position with, you know, with members who often have a lot of, you know, have a lot of connections and, and then potentially influence within certain communities to help promote or advocate for, you know, things like housing programs on a small scale, or for connecting people with partnerships that will allow them to look for either housing or food or meal programs, I think those are things that are very tangible on a community level and can be part of the connected fabric rotary offers, because there's good communication, it's a strong and established organization. I also believe that, you know, I think one of the big things that can be done within within communities is again, yeah, advocacy by those groups, just on a, on a political level, you know, to speak very plainly, and I know that often, Rotary is very inclusive and brings people from multiple political backgrounds together to solve specific problems. And I think that that's something that can be continued to push be pushed forward by rotary groups is that, you know, here in Manitoba, it's, it is election season. And this is the time when, you know, commitments are being made by politicians. And I think that community to organizations are in a strong position to advocate for things that improve their communities and can support their citizens and, you know, leading by example, with programs and holding them up and saying, look at what we're doing here. What if we could do this on a larger scale? is a is a great, a great thing that I think can be done by different organizations and rotaries in a key position to do that. And yes, I have an agenda when I say those things, because I believe that, you know, strong social supports help People lead better lives, and healthier ones. And when it comes to mental health, there's so many factors that contribute, you know, genetics, in your body chemistry, your situation, your upbringing in an environment, these all lead to your state of mental health and your ability to deal with your illness. So I think that being able to do that, for communities and for individuals and their communities will make it easier for people to get better mental health care and to live better lives.
Peter Tonge:I agree completely in and is so interesting to me to think of a food program as a mental health program, because it really is. But when you look at it at the surface, it's like we're feeding hungry kids, no, but we're also nourishing them and their brains and their mental health. It's, it's all connected.
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah, it is all connected. It's, you know, it's providing some sort of security and assurance. And, you know, from my own personal experience, the one one of the worst parts about you like, being depressed and going through these mood swings and feeling like my body was out of control was not knowing what was going on, and being afraid of what tomorrow would bring. And so reducing the amount of things you're afraid about, when tomorrow comes, allows you to focus on whatever the most pressing issue is. And so, you know, what am I going to eat tomorrow? Where am I going to sleep tomorrow? shouldn't need to be the focus, when you're already thinking about, you know, why is my brain doing this to me? Why? What is happening? And so yeah, even something as simple as a food program being like, Why No, if I go to school tomorrow, I may be sad, but I will get lunch is actually helpful.
Peter Tonge:Yeah, we do something that sort of move. Move forward for right.
Kieran Moolchan:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then, you know, then you can say like, yeah, now that I have lunch, I can at least, you know, maybe ask for some help and see if I can, you know, talk to if they're a therapist, or a counselor or my doctor, or you know, and then that's when the other side of the equation kicks in. You know, is the support system is the health care system, setting you up to work through the thing that you were able to take the first step to do, which was ask for help.
Peter Tonge:I think that's the perfect way to end. Kieran thank you very much. I appreciate the conversation. It's fantastic.
Mandy Kwasnica:Thank you so much for joining us on another great episode of talking Rotary. We would love to hear from you. Please send us your comments and story ideas and you can share with us easily by sending us an email at feedback at talking rotary.org Let's keep talking Rotary.