Beverly James and I talk about our Rotary careers aboutbeing recognized and finding your place in Rotary.
Welcome to this episode of Talking Rotary. I'm Peter tonge, and I'm a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg Charleswood. And I am Mandy Kwasnica, past president and also a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg. Charleswood. We are so happy you have joined us here and I are so excited for the new podcast and thankful to our many listeners. Let's start talking Rotary.
Peter Tonge:Everyone, this is Peter Tonge Welcome to another episode of talking Rotary. I'm here today with Beverly James in Beverly is near New York City. Beverly, how are you this morning? Good morning, Peter. I'm fine. Thank you. We have a bright sunny day here in Long Island. That is lovely. I as I mentioned before we started we're gray and overcast and they're calling for snow.
Beverley James:Oh, well, I'm sorry for you.
Peter Tonge:It's alright. It's just the start of a long winded out of the era. And you go every before we get too far into this, can you tell our listeners around the world sort of where you are so they can ramp themselves?
Beverley James:I can. I am in district 7255 in New York. And we are on the beautiful island called Long Island we jump into the Atlantic Ocean we just stick right on out there. And the interesting part about our district is that the Long Island mass is made up of Brooklyn and Queens counties which are part of New York City and Nassau and Suffolk counties. But we've just one long island. So when people live in Queens, they refer to the Nassau and Suffolk as Long Island. And people in Nassau and Suffolk referred to Brooklyn and Queens as the city. But we're one Long Island. We're one district we're very diverse culturally, socio economically, racially. It's just amazing queens, which is part of our district is the most diverse county we believe in the US because we have people from all over the world can't imagine how many different languages plus, plus all the wonderful cuisine. So I'm happy to be incoming district governor for 2024 25 to represent this wonderful, this wonderful popery of humanity.
Peter Tonge:I think that's a great description. And, and I've never I've never been to Queens. I haven't been to New York City years. But it sounds like such an interesting, diverse place where you could sort of visit the whole world the one place.
Beverley James:Yeah, yeah. I love going to Queens. I grew up in Queens I was born in in Harlem, which is Manhattan part of the five boroughs. But I grew up in Queens, pardon me, and then moved to Long Island, Long Island City. I moved to NASA.
Peter Tonge:I understand entirely. Now, but Beverly, tell me a little bit about your reverie.
Beverley James:My Rotary Club is was founded in 1937 in Hempstead, New York. And then it merged with Union day which came about from the wartime post war of working class families. Because it's Hampstead Uniondale, it's largely a minority community. But our rotary club is a little more diverse than that. We're not as diverse as we used to be. But our we're a small club. And we are beginning to step out and bring in others in our community who are not quote us. Because we are a small club and a lot of the white people who had moved on who lived in the area have moved on or, you know, passed away. So right now it's a predominantly black club, black meaning Caribbean, American, Southern American and from West Africa as well. And so that means Simple. That's some diversity there, you know, and we have our one lone last standing white member who happens to be the mayor of Hempstead he never left, he didn't go along with white flight, he stayed a teacher in the school district. And he's been a father, and godfather to many of the young men in particular, in regards to taking them on lots of trips, you know, in regards to sports, keeping them engaged and active. So we're very much engaged with the younger people, we believe that we have to put some effort into helping them to see the world a little bit differently than some of their circumstances might provide. So we do a lot of work with our young people. We do the dictionary project, people say, Why do you still do a dictionary project? Well, we do a Spanish English dictionary project because the community has changed. And the school district asked us to continue to do it, because a lot of children may not have we're in, quote, New York, but everybody still doesn't necessarily have enough internet access. So the fact that they have books, that they are their own makes a big difference to kids. When they write their thank you letters, they tell us how important it is not only for them to have something of their own. And the dictionary has more information than just word meanings in Spanish and English. But the fact that they very often use it when they go with the grandparent or their parents to a doctor's office to help interpret and pass it on to their younger siblings so that they can be better than they are when they get to third grade. So it really is very heartwarming, we do the scholarships we do for those graduating from Hampstead in Uniondale high. And we also do a scholar athlete so that we help them to make certain that they're going to give back to other children so that not only are they doing well, but that they're going to talk to the other kids in the district. We also support a pop operation called Operation get ahead, which is dedicated to young people and seniors, mainly now just seniors are involved. And we support their Thanksgiving food drive, and their Martin Luther King celebration. And in turn, when we do the dictionaries, those seniors put in the labels for us, help us pack them. And they come accompanied us when we go out and do the distribution. So we you know, it warms your heart, because everybody in the newspaper all the kids, the kids, but it warms your heart to see the children engaged. And the kids are like, Oh, my goodness, old people are candid about us. So it's a wonderful my little club, I guess I have to be very honest, right, Peter, this is the whole point of this was to be honest, my little club was never very active in the district. And before our districts merge used to be just Suffolk was one district and Brooklyn, Queens and NAS or were the other. And one of the district governors before the marriage, he, he and his wife always bugged me to come out to things I didn't want to go because my co op had never been involved. And, but there was something about their plea, and the fact that they recognized me as a person. I started coming. And when I started coming, I ran into some other little difficulties. Meaning that I would come out when people would talk to me when we were in class, you know, training sessions. But when I was sitting by myself, I was very much alone. And although this district governor, his wife always reached out, I was always alone until one day, one lady came by and sat next to me and introduced herself and asked me why was I sitting here alone. I said, because nobody else sat with me. And then we started chatting, and then we noticed we both had on the same shoes and a different color. And we became friendly. And I would always look for her and she would seek me out. And since then we have become friends.
Peter Tonge:That's beautiful. I mean, those are, how those connections are made. So it's part of the conversation we're going to have I don't typically describe my podcast gasp but this is all audio. So I think it's important and for my audience in order our ideas know that you are a black woman of middle age, who I have to say carries results with a great deal of grace. think it's an important part of the conversation we're going to have.
Beverley James:Well, thank you. I'm probably a little older than middle age, but I'll take it
Peter Tonge:Its for you to go there, I'm not going to do. So one of the things that that the listeners don't know is you and I, our district governor classmates, and that's how we first met. And we struck up the conversation again about them. Well, just about a month ago, at the beginning of October, in Toronto, it been at learning session called learning to eat. And and in one of the diversity equity inclusion sessions, you made it very clear that you often felt like you weren't heard or you weren't seen. So can we talk a little bit about that?
Beverley James:Yes, we can. How can I start, it's it's very interesting that although when we come together, like in the Learning Center, the Learning Center, but learning to lead, and with zones last year, it was just a small group. And I didn't get to meet with you last year, I saw you, but for some reason, we were never close enough in proximity, but this year, when you arrived, as fate would have it, you sat next to me. And we started to talk because you engaged me as a person, very often others will only say something and then they'll when, when the session is over, they're gone. You know, and it's just that I've been at this a long time being black all these years. I know the difference when someone sees me as a person when someone is just doesn't even acknowledge or they're a bit surprised, and I'm even there. And you would not surprise. And our conversation just took off in general. And we happen to attend some of the same sessions because we were at the DEI, in particular, that afternoon, and recognizing all more than what dei is, it's not just about race. So I don't want anybody to think that that's the whole thing. But that is what I bring to the DEI I bring to the color. And I bring to it, the fact that I'm female. So very often when I'm out on different things, in my district, we have what we call the track. And it's PFS past district governor, current district governor, the DG II and the nominee. And then when the nominee designee comes on, that person comes on in January, often, when we're out, people either don't talk to me or they talk around me. Or they give me another title. Because, oh, you're trying to do the president of your club, right? Well, you're trying to be the president or the compensation is directed to the male or to someone else, not of color. And then I have to, you know, speak up. So that's the part of not been seen. And I make certain that they see me. You do? Yes. And I continue to just plod along. It's not the first time I mean, after all, if I've been here all this time, it's something I'm used to. And very often people will say to me. Oh, that can't be. And well, you live in New York. But I also live on Long Island, which is the most although we are diverse. It's the most segregated area, in a lot of literature excited that how segregated it is. When might Yeah, for instance, Levittown which was a a community that was raised up after World War Two for gi that's my father couldn't buy a house there because in the covenant, and it's still written, you know, you can see it. You could have anybody could come there, but there would not be any blacks and Levittown. Wow. Yeah. So this is New York, and you'd say, wow, you know, but this is the real deal. And part of my goal, as the district governor is to break down some of those barriers and mitigate some of those unforeseen, unconscious and unforeseen biases. People don't even realize that that is there. And then they go, Oh, my goodness, really? And I see. Yeah. And I was, I'm remissed that I didn't bring something to site in particular. So you could find that but if you could just Google Levittown and the establishment of Levittown, it I will say that, you know that that was the that was so. So that it's it is it's a challenge sometimes. And here, here we are in what year is this? 2023? And I'm going to be the first black woman that's ever been. District Governor. Yeah.
Peter Tonge:Yeah, that that seems like way too late in the process as far as I'm concerned. It's, it's interesting to me because as you know, I worked with Rotary. And I work in, in in the diversity equity and inclusion space, because most of my listeners know this, I'm a wheelchair user, and I have a physical disability. So that brings me there. It surprises me how often we have conversations about how difficult the diversity conversations are going to be. Because I don't think they are, I think it's just part of who we are. And we just have these conversations I don't maybe I'm naive, but I don't understand what people are afraid.
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Beverley James:I don't understand either. And maybe I was it was easier for me to talk with you because I am a nurse, I'm a retired nurse. So your inability to emulate the way I am delayed is not a problem for me. I'm used to. I'm used to that, you know, I see you a person. I don't see you as a person in a wheelchair. I see that. But it doesn't matter. And I think that's what the difference is. And my daughter pointed out something to me the other day, I don't have the story. Totally in my mind. But it was something that she had mentioned them when she was working at a big firm. And she and a colleague, both about the same age, and they were working very well with this person who was their senior. And he turns to the other person. He says, oh, yeah, you got it. I see you. You know, you're, you're like a daughter to me. And my daughter's like, really, I'm traveling teach she he didn't see her in the same light. And the other person I think she was even that young woman senior. So it was it was interesting. The first time I heard the story, you know, which is nice. Never told me that. And she said that? Because sometimes there's so many stories. Unfortunate.
Peter Tonge:All those others not so microaggressions. Right?
Beverley James:Exactly.
Peter Tonge:I don't, I don't I mean, my wife says it very well. And she says why don't we just let people be who they are and make their way through the world and stop putting people into categories and boxes. And in all my support, we have lots of stuff going on in my community over, you know, like gay rights and transactional rates and all that stuff. And we're just like
Beverley James:That's my feeling. I don't get it. I try not to use labels, because I feel that the labels are judgmental, because when we label somebody, there's some sort of connotation that goes with it. So I don't like labels. Unfortunately, very often. That's what we have to do. I, I used to tell people, well, if you didn't know me, and I told you, we were going to meet at Penn Station, I'm going to get on the railroad we've never met. Don't I have to describe myself, I said, I can't just say I'm going to be a tall woman, when a black coat. People are going to be there with black coats. So I'd have to say that I'm tall. I have mixed gray here. I'm wearing a black coat. And I'm a dark skinned black woman. That you your start eliminating people so that you'll know that's what I'm looking for. I said, but I'm not labeling. I'm just stating a fact. You know, I see because maybe the next day I'll have one a great coach. So today I have on the black coat. But those are the things some facts. And so it made the person feel much more comfortable together. She said to me, she said, Oh, I get it. I get it. I'm getting that and I said yeah, I said it's just how you respond.
Peter Tonge:Yeah, I understand that entirely because I'm in the same situation, I will go in describe, describe myself as somebody who's a wheelchair user, because that automatically makes it easier to find
Beverley James:exactly.
Peter Tonge:Probably the only bald guy with earrings in a wheelchair that you're gonna find.
Beverley James:That means that's good, because it means it was accessible.
Peter Tonge:But, again, don't don't, don't be afraid of those pieces of truth, because they're all things that I'm proud of and make up who I am.
Beverley James:Exactly, yeah.
Peter Tonge:So, so I'm gonna ask you an unfair question. Answer if you want to or don't want to do. So how, how do we help rotary get beyond the worry, and the fear and all the stuff that comes with the diversity work.
Beverley James:It's a big chunk to chew on. And to have people get over the fear, I think the biggest thing is one recognizing to not letting the the DEI thing itself be so frightening to people, because we have to understand that diversity is more than obvious. There may be someone who has a hearing deficit when may not be aware of or some sight differences that they may not be aware of. Or some social, some economic, because rotary to me, sometimes very often has set it up with there are people who won't approach rotary because they only see that it has money, money, money, money, and they don't realize that, okay, and you're still welcome. Yes, money is important is we do work in the foundation. But we need hands to do the work as well. So we very often have some obstacles that are there. And I think that the biggest thing is that our social media and our regular newscast and everything else is presents bias opinions. And so I think we have to remember to if we could try to use the four way test, almost literally, I can't believe I'm saying that it just came to me. I mean, this is the truth, we need to do real factual. This discernment there. You know, just because we saw it on Oh, I saw it on Facebook, or I saw it on the internet. It's not necessarily true. Because I saw it on his TV. It's not necessarily true. So I think we have to use some of those things. And I think the more we expose, and the more we think of that the better answer, but no, but
Peter Tonge:you gave a great answer to what, frankly, is an impossible question. So I mean, just because because we both live and work in that space. I just wanted to talk about it so that we can help people move along the path. Great. You know, some someday, within organizations like Rotary, we don't have to have diversity, equity inclusion discuss.
Beverley James:Exactly, because we'll just be doing it.
Peter Tonge:Yeah, I hope frankly, somebody puts meout of a job.
Beverley James:I know, isn't that a wonderful thing? No, no people being people? Oh, no.
Peter Tonge:Well, I'm not optimistic that it's going to happen in the course of my Rotary career, but I'm hoping someday that none of that stuff matters. And people just are who they're,
Beverley James:I think so. I. I do know, though, that by opening my mouth that day, and standing up and saying, that's what the DEI panel was pretty good, but I didn't see myself and I was wondering why it wasn't invited. And that has led to not only you asking me about doing the podcast, but I did hear from zones. I heard from somebody zones. And no one we don't even realize no one looked to see who was actually going to be on the panel. They you know, they were setting up the panel and boom, boom, boom, but they didn't think to look to see who was really going to be there. So it was good that I opened up their eyes
Peter Tonge:I think whenever we can feel comfortable enough to speak out, it only makes things better. I mean, I can only I can only speak for myself. But I almost always speak out because I because I think it's important because I don't I don't want people to feel that they're not being seen or heard or whatever. Right. So if I have the opportunity, I try and speak out. Am I perfect? Absolutely. The best I can. Absolutely, absolutely. So glad Glad to have you on the team of people that are doing that.
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Beverley James:Yeah, me too. And I used to be shy. And I know people don't believe that people who know me, well, they go like, really, and I go, yes. And I lost, I lost my shyness. When I was in college, I was used to only being you know, the only black girl or one of the few black girls doing stuff. And that bothered me, because that's not how I was brought up. Like I said, we didn't deal with labels, you know, whoever was there was there. But when I was in college, I found out if I didn't speak up, um, heck, I was missing out on something. And, and you don't know who's there to support you. But as it turned out, and my, as a nursing student, one of my instructors, we were in the hospital, and then you get to pick your patients, you know, I mean, you read, this is the diagnosis, we're studying them. And you get to look at all the demographics of the patient, and you pick. And she came over to me, and she said to me, and I love this professor, she said to me, been really, you're only picking people who look like you? And I said, Yeah, I said, I noticed that. And so she says, Well, why are you doing that? I said, because I noticed that even when I was picking people who didn't look like me, nobody picked anybody who looked like me. And I think they should have a student nurse to take care of them too. And it hit her. And she said, Oh my goodness, she took it back to the class when we were back in class. And she made people deliberately, deliberately involve people from all aspects. And we were able to at that time to even think about all the people all getting the same treatment. How what are we seeing, are we seeing any differences? That wasn't really part of our thing. We supposed to be looking at the cardiac patient, but because we because she approached me and another one of my classmates with this issue. I have to applaud her because she taught us all something. And it you know, she didn't have to, but she spoke up and I spoke up so well, I was big mouth after that.
Peter Tonge:Well, I think that's fantastic. Because not only do you spoke up and made it better, you brought an entirely different perspectives to the whole class that your other student nurses and the other classes didn't get me to all better nurses.
Beverley James:Yes, there were still quite a few of us. We are still friends.
Peter Tonge:So they really only have one sort of set question in the podcast. And that is you're a busy woman you could be spending your time and your money and your energy anywhere why Rotary?
Beverley James:Okay, now this is gonna sound sappy. You know, people talk about, oh, you got to be good. And you have to do this. You have to do that. And you go to church or whatnot to do this, do that. I have discovered that rotary does God's work without all the trappings of the church. So there's no, there's no, oh, you got to do this. You got to come dressed this particular way or whatever. I mean, yeah, we have our little rituals and whatnot. But I just love it because I'm able to do the same things that I was doing there. But I can get it done a little bit quicker, because I don't have to go up this necessary hierarchy all the time. You know, I can do it on the club level or if you want to do something globally, you just put all everything together, and you can run with it. And I do still do some of those other things but Rotary brings me the greatest reward.
Peter Tonge:That's fabulous. I think the only thing is that what made me speak up that particular day a couple of weeks ago was that I still find this to be a problem because I teach a course called sacred ground Episcopal Church which the Episcopal Church is naturally groping with, you know, inequities and things that they have done in the past not only to black people, but to indigenous people, to others who are different. And so that coping with that, but the biggest thing is, I often wonder why people really don't believe and I am like, Oh, that can't be sold. And I just always really, when I'm speaking, I really want to be heard, I really want to be believed. I'm not asking anybody to apologize when what went on in the past. I'm just asking that moving now and moving forward, that they're more aware. I'm not going to change people's minds. But I do want people to be more aware. And then maybe people themselves will change their own minds as to how they see many different things. Not just diversity, equity and inclusion things, but many other aspects and what goes on in the world. I just think we need to be more open to hearing something different than what we think we know. Amen to that. It's been a great conversation. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to have you as a classmate.
Beverley James:I'm so happy to be with you.
Peter Tonge:I'm looking forward to seeing you in Orlando.
Beverley James:Yes, definitely.
Peter Tonge:I will have an ally to go to on the difficult days. And I really appreciate you spending the time with me and we're getting this down as a podcast. So this is going to go out. Where are we now? early December. We'll put this one out.
Beverley James:Oh my thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for the opportunity to let me just be me.
Peter Tonge:I appreciate it so much. You take care of me all right.
Beverley James:Thank you.
Mandy Kwasnica:Thank you so much for joining us on another great episode of talking Rotary. We would love to hear from you. Please send us your comments and story ideas and you can share with us easily by sending us an email at feedback at talking rotary.org Let's keep talking Rotary.